Ethical Egoism

[Aye Maung]

Having true moral fiber of any society is difficult, especially when they work against your desires, but willfully going against the moral standards of a society is equally difficult, if not more challenging mentally and psychologically. Today, the morals of the general population of humans are based upon altruism. However, economically and politically, it's a cannibalistic world out there. Satanism preaches egoism, tells its followers to have no guilt, and if one does, rejoice in it. Ignore the eloquence of the author for a second, and take it as it is. It is a ridiculous proposal; by definition, guilt is a negative feeling and having no guilt is inhuman, at least for most adults. And in practicality, egoism does work, sometimes at the expense of others. But to what expense? Look at the living conditions of the workers during the Industrial Revolution, the slaves who toiled in the Americas, and those who are paid unfair wages across the world so we can get cheap stuff at Wal-Mart. Because of our society, egoism is looked down upon and and those who follow will not have a clean conscience because the values instilled to them during their youth. And those who truly choose to be altruistic are significantly less likely to succeed in this capitalistic world. Of course, the majority of the population chooses to be hypocrites, choosing to practice egoism in their actions and altruism in their thoughts. I, however, am not satisfied with it. Compromising between these two clashing titanic philosophies is choosing between a materialistic life and a clean conscience. Unfortunately, I am not wise nor intelligent enough to solve this dilemma. I would love to hear your opinions and gain insight from them.

[Ana, Daughter of Lilith]

I'm in a bit of a rush, Aye, so I can't offer a detailed opinion just at the present. As a quick response I would say that I pay no attention at all to the 'moral fiber' of society, always following my own instincts, always seeking to define myself beyond good and evil. :-) But on a more general level I'm not sure that general morals are always based on altruism. There is often a high degree of self-interest involved, too. But, as I say, I really have to dash.

[Leo-Gonzo Satanist]

Good observation and nothing can or will be done again about it from where you are. I am of the age that I gave up being concerned about things that are out of my hands. So what's on sale at Wal Mart this week?

[Aye Maung]

Fortunately, I should have many years ahead of me, and I would like to live out my later years without regret and with materialistic fortune. In this world, it is improbable to obtain great power and wealth, to achieve my ambitions without exploiting other people. I was raised a Buddhist and I could say I still am to a minute degree, and it is in my nature to be a humanist. Therefore, it is near impossible for me to keep a clear conscience in this world if I am to fully pursue my ambitions.

[Aye Maung]

I know of detachment, but I do not know if it is worth it. My ambitions are of the most improbable and most difficult kind. I know that I can choose a path where my actions are less likely cause misery and suffering, but it is with too many compromises. I think I worry too much though, life will happen. But there is little harm in thinking ahead, especially when I have nothing better to do.

[MoMo]

It is a rock and a hard place trying to find a healthy balance. I must agree with that. It all depends on how you are built mentally. If the programming we have been exposed to that tells us it's morally wrong to go for what you want without waiting in line that will make a person feel bad about egoism. With me that doesn't bother me because I came to the conclusion that society wasn't worth me holding back a long time ago. Even in the streets I felt bad for what I was doing until I realized that without the heart of a predator I will become prey. I think the debunking of the " It's not that bad" mentality plus the philosophy of the individualist will help balance the opposing ways of thinking out. Without the belief that a God or Gods wants us to be sheep and the belief that the structure of society is worth holding back for the greater good it's easier to walk the tightrope you Aye has so eloquently expounded opon. HS!

[Serpentine]

"Be the change you want to see in the world"- Gandhi

I recently wrecked a marriage, sent a friend to jail, and worked as a volunteer in a soup kitchen. I helped to better the lives of two individuals, helped another to realize what it means to be accountable, and contributed to my community. Is that egoism? Yes. Altruistic? A bit. Satanic? That's debatable. Fucked up? Depends on who you talk to. I have liquid morals, and I make no apologies. Keeping up with what's right and wrong is tiresome and the monotonous drone of individuals touting it is nauseating. I do what feels right and necessary to me. It has always been a cannibalistic world, and will continue to be so regardless of the economical and political times we live in. We can't change the whole world outside of us, we can only change the one world within us. To make a compromise between materialism and a clean conscience...it is your individual choice. To give, to take...to give AND take...it's entirely up to you.

[Ana, Daughter of Lilith]

OK, second go!

To begin with, Aye, there is no such thing as a constant moral concept; standards vary in accordance with time and with circumstances. I can see no evidence, whatsoever, that morality is based or has ever been based on ‘altruism’. I don’t really want to get too intellectual here but you might care to look over Nietzsche’s On The Genealogy of Morals where he demonstrates not only that there are differing moral standards but these standards have differing social and historical roots. The kind of morality that I personally try to follow is what is good is what is helpful and what is bad is what is harmful. I push it just that one extra step, embracing the sacred egoism of Max Stirner! Having no guilt is not ‘inhuman’; having no guilt is divine.

The morals of the so-called general population, the ‘Wall Mart Morals’, if you prefer, is not based on altruism but, as I have already said, on self-interest, on collective self-interest; on the motion of the herd. By this measure Wal-Mart morality is defined solely by utility; what is good is what is useful. Egoism is not looked down on; it’s just channelled into a collective end. Greed is good continues to be the mantra of consumerist societies, even in the midst of recession; not to do good is good. Let me put it another way: nobody, absolutely nobody ‘practices’ altruism, even in thought, if such a thing were possible (thought and practice are two quite different things), nobody beyond a few religious mystics, and even here asceticism might just be another form of egoism. In this latter regard even total detachment from material things, detachment in the Buddhist sense, requires the sacrifice of others, unless one was to live solely on fresh air.

Sorry, this may be getting a bit rarefied. Let me just say I personally am not interested in a ‘clean conscience’. So far as I am concerned those who are can take up the cross and walk to Calvary. For you see, I’m just a material girl and this is a material world. :-))

[Aye Maung]

I am not that concerned with a clean conscience right now, but I don't know for sure how I will be when I grow up. I suppose I will find out later.

[Night Ankh]

Personally, as for me, I would much rather have a clean conscience. I tend to associate materialistic life to x-tians. I really don't care about collecting the most possessions. What's the point? I have no desire to "keep up with the Jones'" That whole mindset escapes me. He who dies with the most toys, wins? Wins what??
I would only offer that you do what you feel is right, in this situation.
Just so you know, and I hope this helps, there really aren't any emotion that are negative, it's all based on what one chooses to DO with said emotion, that dictates it's outcome. I don't care to do much that would cause guit, but have. I feel it's basically a wasted emotion, in a way. BUT, on the other side of that coin, if guilt brings about a change within one's self for a more positive change, then so much the better for them.

[Mister_Six]

I haven't posted in a while so I'm going to clarify MY stance on this subject.

Pretty much all the level headed and successful people in my immediate group consider the ego an unhealthy thing. Many young men like myself put ego first pride second, and even as much as I hate to say this, integrity last. This is a young man's mindset though, these priorities are reversed the older and more mature you get apparently. Most people will agree unanimously that ego and pride are bad things, but then again these are the same people that think all of the seven deadly sins are bad things too.

I view the ego and pride as healthy counterparts to every person, but there is a limit. Like a man that cannot walk away from a fight, that is pride gone awry. Or one that can't seem to take No for an answer. Gotta know when to hold em' and when to fold em'. As far as ego, I think it's absolutely hilarious sometimes how carried away people get with themselves. I'm a tall guy in good shape and I see all these short wimpy men walking around like their shit don't stink or walking around like their 8 feet tall and bullet proof. I think it's absolutely comical because push come to shove I KNOW I'd pick my teeth with the lot of them. I realize this though and keep it where it belongs, it belongs in the back of my head, not in my walk, and not on my tongue because I have no need to brag. This is something typically young men suffer with though, they think they need to prove shit to people when people are indifferent to them, they don't care, and intelligent people will think they're stupid for trying to assert themselves in this manner. So knowing, to yourself, that you're a capable, cool guy is one thing. To force that opinion on others is a completely different thing. LOL! Watching these short men with women is funny too, I almost laugh out loud when I see how awkward it is. The stupid female population eats this BS up though.

As far as ethics are concerned, they are universal, and absolute as far as I'm concerned. I'm speaking about the common sense ones like don't kill, don't steal, don't eye fuck your neighbors wife, etc... In a world only concerned about it's next pay check we can expect people to lose sight of decency and demonize the good guys. I'm demonized a ton by people, but it's because I make them look like pieces of shit in front of people and no one likes being made the fool. I have risen above the mediocre and lead by example, it's your own fault if you can't learn lessons anymore.

[Queen]

I live for me I do for me. You always will step on someone to attain what you want. For me money and power is just that.. If you have one you must have the other. Although money makes me happy. Having the authority to go against the nature of people is great. I am detached and it benefits me when I am working so I won't fall into the trap like the other poeple do. We know nothing is going to change so live for the moment and enjoy it.

[NARCISSUS]

Guilt? It's this mechanism we use to control people. It's an illusion. It's a kind of social control mechanism--and it's very unhealthy. It does terrible things to our bodies.... It doesn't solve anything, necessarily. It's just a very gross technique we impose upon ourselves to control the people, groups of people. I guess I am in the enviable position of not having to deal with guilt. There's just no reason for it.... I feel sorry for people who feel guilt. I'm not talking about the act. I'm talking about the emotional consequences of the act. I feel sorry for people who are drug addicts or who are criminals. I feel sorry for business executives who have to lust after money and power. I feel sorry for a lot of people who have to do things that hurt them. But I don't feel sorry for anyone who doesn't feel guilty because the guilt doesn't solve anything, really. It hurts you....You don't need to feel badly. You don't need to regret." ."-----------Theodore Robert Bundy