Contradiction?

[Eric T. Schuetz]

Something came to mind this morning. I was viewing a profile over at my Society of Shadows community site, and it had a Website on it. The person in question is a Theistic "Father Satan" type. So, I viewed her website. Interesting thing is that the definition of Satanism that she used was right out of the Satanic Bible. I find it amusing how many Theistic Satanists hate Anton LaVey for "commercializing Satanism". They do not use his materials at all. Of course, this individual isn't exactly in her right state of mind anyway.

So here is the question... Is it a contradiction of ideas to define Theistic Satanism by using Modern Satanic doctrines? Now, granted, the Satanic Bibles definition of Satanism can be seen as a revolving door in many ways, but they concepts were laid out for an Atheistic perspective that there is no god but the self. However, in most Theistic views, the individual is not before Satan, but a follower of such. Again, the contradictions.

Please, feed back. I am curious as to everyone's thoughts on this.

[Eric T. Schuetz]

Good points Prophet. Many in the modern circle like to use the term "Reverse Christian" for the Theistics and Traditionals. They take most of the biblical accounts of Lucifer/Satan and use that as their basis, then they utilize many of the more common rites in the church and alter them. They also cling to the "old gods" as their definitions of Satan/Lucifer, claiming they are all one and the same, just blasphemed by the Christian church.

Much of their research is loose and disconnected, clinging to small similarities between the various old gods. They brag about being an old religion, around longer than LaVey's modern views. Interestingly enough, as Kayla points out, many of these various groups were more for show, than actual intent. Some modern groups try to claim to be connected to these older groups, such as the Hellfire Clubs. They also try to brag about being descended from the Knights Templar, even though the group was NEVER Satanists. Yes, the worshipped Baphomet, but not as an evil Satanic Deity, but as a god of loyalty.

As Kayla mentioned, these groups are young and struggling. They are making an attempt to make something for themselves. The shameful thing is they do so in absurd ways that only makes them appear as fools.

[Leo-Gonzo Satanist]

Everybody does at least some "cafeteria" selecting on their path. Myself included and that's fine and healthy. No one should march lockstep to any system. Giving something your own flavor is a must.
As for the Theistics, as far as I can see it's inverse Christianity. Just trading out one friend in the sky for the other. Plain and simple.

[Leo-Gonzo Satanist]

No.I don't foresee myself holding hands with the Theistics and singing "I'd Like to Buy The World A Coke" and dialouge is hard when you're dealing with people who haven't got the same basis in reality as we do. However, this is the way the site is set up and I'm of the mind that as long as I'm a guest here that I should TRY to give space. And I'm trying....really....trying.

[Eric T. Schuetz]

We all have our opinions, and they all have a habit of making themselves known. Mine included. MySatan was intended to have everyone come to one place and have an "open mic night". I dare say it is a powder keg sitting on a lake of nitroglycerin, with me holding the match book. That is half of the fun though.

[Eric T. Schuetz]

An interesting point in regards to wht you are talking about...

What materials do you use? There are no real books, pamphlets, etc that anyone can just "go and use". And, if you are basing it all off of materials outside of Judaism or Christianity, then it is not Satanism, as that term is a Jewish word, or Christian being.

Referencing your beliefs to anything older, such as Sumerian Gods, then it should be named after the God of choice in that religion.

[keith]

please to forgive if rude kayla but what did you read? it does'nt ever say that enki created humans in the garden, it just says that he made them out of clay.

enki ate the fruit which it does not specify from where it came and was punished and a female god tended his side, i dint see anything about a rib in there nor about her being human. it even specifically said that in the sumerian story that the sacred tree was not referred to as the tree of life, it was simply important.

now lets compare the seperate flood stories. in one god decided the world was bad and wanted to kill everyone but decided one man and his family was good so told them to build an ark and they survived. in the sumerian flood story the gods got tired of their servants and decided to kill them with a flood but enki helped humans survive.

kayla researching the subject is good but you may want to keep a bit more of an open mind because if your looking for a certain thing you can miss things that dont go along with what you were looking for.

on a final note kayla i would like to say that i bear no hostility towards you i simply disagree.

[Eric T. Schuetz]

All of that work didn't go to waste. It was brilliant. I felt a few wrinkles grow as I read everything. And you are right, she complete deleted her profile and left the network. That is truly pathetic. Why claim a religion you have no knowledge of and then attempt to "school" the "non-believers of true Satanism"? Absurd little girl.

[keith]

no reply thing to the reply up there so ill say it here. theres your stuff about edin and cain and abel and adam. as for the lady of the rib, i dont remember eve being a god. crystalinks refers to the gods getting their food from earth so that there must be a tree of life but thats more of an opinion than a fact. i didnt see anything explaining about the flood. also both men and women were made from the earth. when you google you may want a little less of references made in pages about adam and eve and those stories and a few more direct pages of sumerian mythology. hope you can make a lil sense of it, im goin to bed

[Jesse]

In reply to the topic, I think the Satanic Bible can be used by both. It's easy to adapt the book to theistic use.

[RevJjody Griggs]

ok i have to put my 2 cents in now lol any ways i dont care for the father satan types i do feel that most of them are nut jobs lol. anyways. the person that eric did mention i was going to be kind enough to let her move in here and thank satan eric talked me out of it lol she got mad becuase i got involved with some one and well she keep trying to tell me nothing is going to work out for me because faather satan has a lesson for me gees but they way she did it is supposedly channel father satan (nut job) sorry had to but those people who think because they never had a daddy and or was mistreated by daddy thank they are from satans sperm holy fucking hell. some people should just be locked away and well they key dsestoryed sorry but most not all that i have encounterd are nothing but nut jobs

[Jesse]

Another good book is Liber Domini Satanae. I believe that Satan is BOTH an external and internal spirit, but worshipping it is VERY unsatanic.. instead we should try to be LIKE it, therefor exaulting ourselves, being our OWN Gods. That is how my Theistic POV works.

[Terrsaa]

The following was copied from my reply to this same discussion on the SoS site, which i am sad to say does not get that much attention these days.


Eric, you mentioned something in one of your posts that popped back into my head just now. You had said something to the effect of 'read the bible, it has some good points in it'. i'm sorry that i can't remember the post or exactly what you said.

Some concepts aren't inherantly Theistic or Atheistic in nature, but generally accepted as such. And as a result, can be appropriately applied to either path. If a Satanist can use a generally accepted Biblical concept to his/her personal benefit and it not be considered contradictory then i suppose that a Theistic Satanist can use an Atheistic concept in the same maner. But by not knowing the person or seeing the website in question, i have to concede the possibility that she's just another waste of breath.